(no subject)

[taleya]

Ok, Feel free to call me an idiot - and until JB deliver into my paws, I have not seen Atlantis season one, but I've done some digging, and seen all s2, and you know what my memory is like....



Why would the Wraith think Earth to be the holy promised feeding frenzy? I mean seriously? Yeah, it's got a couple billion humans on it, but it's still an finite food source.

Now, given even just from s2 the populated planets they've been to in the Pegasus galaxy, there's plenty of food there. I mean shit, look at the populations - there has to be a big enough population to have a diverse enough gene pool per planet FOR those populations to be healthy. Not to mention the size of them.

Now obviously the Wraith are not fucking starving. we see on The Hive that they've got a couple of pet humans. The Olesians in Condemned were keeping the Wraith somewhat at bay by feedin' them their criminals. They're not exactly the actions of a starving race, nor do they appear to be on short rations. So why Earth?

Forward planning? If they can think that far forward to having an excess food stock, you think they'd be having little human farms about the place. It won't take a tenth of the effort, nor the potential loss of many of their ships and population. In fact, that's what the word "cull" explicitly brings to mind - culling the herd. Realistically the guys on Atlantis aren't pissing them off that much. If anything, they would be reducing the population pressures, making it more food for less people.

So why are they so fucking obsessed with Earth as a food source? I mean, the Goa'uld had a valid reasoning - hosts, but more importantly, Earth was rapidly a threat to the established order of the system lords over their slaves. Moreso at the end than even the Tok'ra. And they're pompous, arrogant arseholes, and can't be having with that. But what is behind the Wraith? Seriously? It beggars logic!

Comments

Seeing season one would clear up a lot of this

[exegesis.livejournal.com]

Why would the Wraith think Earth to be the holy promised feeding frenzy? Now, given even just from s2 the populated planets they've been to in the Pegasus galaxy, there's plenty of food there

Because it isn't just a question of one planet, it's an entire galaxy of food. The food is becoming a serious problem - hive ships are wiping out populations of entire worlds all throughout season 2 (and at the end of season 1). People are a finite resource. Not to mention the fact that most societies in the Pegasus galaxy are small (like the Athosians) as a reaction to the Wraith presence. With so many Wraith around, a source that was perfect for a small group becomes completely untebable for 10 times (or more) that many. It's simple mathematics.

Now obviously the Wraith are not fucking starving. We see on The Hive that they've got a couple of pet humans.

No, they aren't starving yet. But they recognise that they will eat the humans faster than they can breed and that will lead to problems. Wraith can be patient - in season 1, there was a Wraith that had lasted for 10, 000 years, stranded on a planet with no food for the last 5, 000 or so years (The Defiant One). They don't have to eat constantly (like humans) to survive. They just want to. There also seems to be an element of compete greed - they want to eat humans before others get to them (see how pissed the queen is in The Hive when another ship turns up). I think being able to gorge themselves is a pretty irrestistable concept.

Having pet humans has less to do with food supplies than everything to do with having an advantage over their fellow Wraith. The humans in the Pegasus galaxy are used to not trusting the Wraith, so they need human spies to keep an eye on things for them. However, I'd say that some worlds at least are onto them - it would explain the deep suspicion the Atlanteans receive as 'newcomers' to the galaxy.

If they can think that far forward to having an excess food stock, you think they'd be having little human farms about the place.

That idea is unviable in the show's depiction of the Wraith - they would need humans to police it for them and that can lead to problems. The Wraith themselves couldn't run 'human farms' because they seem incapable of self control when it comes to snacking. They'd eat all the people too soon. And they do have vague forms of human farms. You yourself mentioned the Olesians in Condemned.

The word "cull" explicitly brings to mind culling the herd. Realistically the guys on Atlantis aren't pissing them off that much. If anything, they would be reducing the population pressures, making it more food for less people.

'Cull' is the human word for what they are doing. Wraith call it 'feeding.' 'Feeding' has none of the preservation connotations that 'cull' has. Plus, culling practices were developed for when the Wraith slept, which is no longer the situation.

The Atlanteans are a definite threat. Having any race that can compete with the Wraith on a technological level is unacceptable because they can spread that technology. What would happen if all humans had it? Its not a question of decreasing competition, its personal safety: if they can take out a fellow hive ship, they can take out you. The Atlanteans have pissed them off immeasureably because they are disrupting the patterns of 10, 000 years and threaten the Wraith lifestyle. The Wraith have reacted violently to civilisations that become too 'advanced' in the past - the Hoffans were on borrowed time in season 1's Poisoning the Well while the Satedan culture was eradicated (poor Ronon!). Wraith don't tolerate any threat and the Atlanteans have proven themselves to be a fair threat. Added to that is the fact they use Ancient tech - which has defeated the Wraith in the past - and those Atlanteans have got to go! Into stomachs, preferably...

Personally, I'd love to see Wraith vs Goa'uld. What happens if a Wraith feeds off a goa'uld. Do they till get drained? Does it happen more slowly, or can the goa'uld stop it?

Re: Seeing season one would clear up a lot of this

[taleya.livejournal.com]

They don't have to eat constantly (like humans) to survive. They just want to. There also seems to be an element of compete greed - they want to eat humans before others get to them (see how pissed the queen is in The Hive when another ship turns up). I think being able to gorge themselves is a pretty irrestistable concept.

But, then you see in Instinct....There's a rogue one terrorising a community, and it only attacks two or three people every three to five years. Now the fact that it lives in the woods surrounding the settlement, constantly drowning in a food supply, does suggest from a behavioural viewpoint that they do have self-control when it comes to limited foodstock. Sheppherd is interrogated in The Hive - hell, the entire group there is kept alive - they do have self control. You've got dinner snacks sitting there in an entire bloody ship full of Wraiths, and they're not being touched. So there is definitely precedent for control - the feeding frenzy only happens at times of extreme hunger.

I think a goa'uld (the hybrid I assume you're referring to, rather than just the worm) would be a six course meal. You've got the symbiote artifically extending the human lifespan at the same time the Wraith are artifically shortening it. I think it'd come down to which happens first - the symbiote dying, or the Wraith exploding from too much food :P

Re: Seeing season one would clear up a lot of this

[thalass.livejournal.com]

Imagine if the Wraith got their hands on one of the Goa'uld sarcophagus. They wouldn't need to use it themselves, since they seem to be able to live indefinately, but with it they could feed off of a human, and then rejuvinate it! A small number of humans could feed more wraith for a much longer time! Potentially forever, with acceptable losses for an overzealous feeder every now'n'then.

Re: Seeing season one would clear up a lot of this

[exegesis.livejournal.com]

I haven't watched Instinct yet, but my understanding is that Elia was trying to keep a low profile, so that might explain the small numbers taken. One alone doesn't have the strength to take on an entire settlement. And again, what's the point of eating everyone at once? Then the creature would have had no food.

Sheppherd is interrogated in The Hive - hell, the entire group there is kept alive -

Keeping alive a small group isn't the same as holding breeding stock over a long period of time. Plus, a queen was directly present, controlling them. You would assume a queen wouldn't deign to supervise a breeding facility and stop her drones snacking. Also, as the Wraith are not a unified force, they would have the trouble of other Wraith hives trying to steal their produce. You get a lot about the Wraith mindset from the Keeper in the pilot - she explains how Wraith are driven by hunger and they think to deny the hunger is pathetic.

So there is definitely precedent for control - the feeding frenzy only happens at times of extreme hunger.

Nope. No sign of feeding frenzies, ever. There's no indication that the Wraith are going back to earth purely to eat the entire population at once. They won't even necessarily begin feeding straight away. They just want more of their food source, which is perfectly reasonable. In The Defiant One a Wraith who has been starving himself for 5, 000 years comes across McKay, Sheppard and 2 redshirts. He only eats one of the redshirts straight away - the other he takes off to cocoon and preserve for later. Having food doesn't mean they waste it.

Really, if the Wraith were interested in food conservation, you 'd think they'd do something like only feed a little from a large number of humans. There is a suugestion that they are cautious about making sure there is breeding stock in the way they are assumed to not eat kids in season 1's Childhood's End. Of course, that's an assumption and you don't know whether its actually true or not.

I think a goa'uld (the hybrid I assume you're referring to, rather than just the worm) would be a six course meal

Uh, seeings how goa'uld cann't exist for very long outside a host - duh. I don't think the Wraith would explode from too much food, but it may mean 2 meals instead of one. And what if the goa'uld can fight the aging? Wraith sucks to the point of death - lets go. Goa'uld heals, we all come back and do the same thing over tomorrow! In reality, I think the Wraith would just eat the human and they'd die like normal humans - the feeding is so rapid that the goa'uld couldn't heal in time (because it does take them time to fix things) and so would just die with its host, as it would if it were exploded or shot and killed in one go. Of course, that leads to the interesting question of sarcophagi. Obviously a human victim of Wraith would either stay dead or revive briefly before dying again - the sarcophagus doesn't de-age you. But if a goa'uld victim of the Wraith was put in, would they be alive long enough to start healing the damage and possibly reverse the process? Questions, questions...

[residentgeek.livejournal.com]

As I understand it, since I missed quite a few episodes of S2, it's less about Earth as a specific target and more about the location of a galaxy with a metric shit-ton of new food sources (all the planets SG-1 has visited, plus the ones they haven't yet).

Instead of the wraith having to pick a galaxy at random and go bopping along all the planets asking "Is anybody home?", they would have the specific location of a good number (what, 30? 40? at least) planets with significant populations to feed on.

As the series progresses, though, they reduce this idea verbally to just "the location of Earth" but what they really mean is the map of our galaxy with big "all you can eat" signs everywhere. In Season 1 they were a lot more broad about the concept, but you know how Americans get fixated on just their country. It's gotta be all about us, y'know.

[gemnoire.livejournal.com]

As the series progresses, though, they reduce this idea verbally to just "the location of Earth" but what they really mean is the map of our galaxy with big "all you can eat" signs everywhere. In Season 1 they were a lot more broad about the concept, but you know how Americans get fixated on just their country. It's gotta be all about us, y'know.

In some ways it does actually make sense though. Firstly if you're going to go to another galaxy, you want to know the location of a planet where you're guarenteed to get food, and Earth is going to be the easiest one to get co-ordinates to (given it's the one Atlantis staff are most likley to know). Furthermore, out planet is massively overpopulated. We are coming up to a population of 7 billion on a planet that scientists have recently extimated could happily handle 2 billion. It is very unlikley any other planet we've come accross in SG1 is even vaguely displays the same population density, usually too primitive to support that level of population and the few that aren't have a wide variety of factors keeping their population down (conflicts, environmental factors...).

As far as feeding grounds go, Earth is a pretty good bet, given the knowledge the Wraith are working off. In terms of why they want to come to our galaxy, well you really need to watch Season 1, or even just the pilot to get that one.

[taleya.livejournal.com]

*greedy little grabby motions*

Well, I have the S1 box set on order from JB *checks it* still in progress, but should have for next week *bounces*